The Diderot Effect: How to Get Out of a Spending Spiral

What actually causes us to spend beyond our means? While in some cases it’s the result of a job loss or illness, in other situations, it’s the Diderot Effect at play. The Diderot Effect is a social phenomenon where the introduction of a new possession that deviates from what you currently own leads to a spiral of even more consumption. For example, when you buy a new house, you don’t just settle for the home. You now have to have new furniture, maybe a new deck, and so on. This creates a cycle of spending and leads to debt.

How do we, then, prevent ourselves from becoming a victim of this effect? How do we control a spending spiral? My guest today suggests thinking critically about what we see on social media and on television is a great place to start.

Fear of Missing Out is a Real Thing

Robert Gignac works on behalf of advisors and financial professionals to help their clients better understand money management. He’s also the author of Rich is a State of Mind: Building Wealth and Happiness: A Blueprint. In his experience, ordinary people become victim of the Diderot Effect because of the deceptive nature of social and digital media:

The real world does not exist on Facebook or on Instagram. What that is, is everybody’s pictures of their best day all the time. And none of those social networks really show us what’s happening in those people’s lives when it’s not on their best day, when they’re lying awake at 3 in the morning because the Visa bill’s due and the Visa bill’s $1,700 more than they’ve got allowable to pay it on that given day.

He believes that in our attempt to keep up in large part due to our fear of missing out, we go beyond our financial means. In addition, once we’ve set a new and higher standard of living for ourselves, it’s very hard to go back down.

Getting out of the Spending Spiral

According to Robert, it’s easy to build a lifestyle that looks amazing to everyone else, but it’s a lot harder to have a solid financial life. He explains why:

Because it’s boring. Personal finance is boring. People ask me all the time, you know, what’s the one big thing I can do, what’s the most exciting thing I can do to get better with my money? And I always tell them stop thinking that personal finance is exciting. It’s not. It’s the little things that we do over and over and over again on an ongoing basis that help make it successful.

Therefore, while spending can be fun, the actual act of managing your money does not produce the same feeling. Robert also explains that for some people, money management can be challenging because they have a fear of money:

It’s called chrematophobia…they’re afraid of dealing with the consequences of money.

Chrematophobia is also a fear of being seen by others as unsuccessful with money, which can lead to spending beyond your means. To combat this feeling, Robert suggests taking a closer look at your behaviour and understanding why you’re about to make a big purchase:

Behaviour says what am I trying to accomplish, what are the goals that I’m setting out for myself?

Ultimately, he recommends that you avoid buying things that don’t fit your current lifestyle. Just because something can be presented glamorously online, doesn’t mean it’s needed and what’s worse, you may not even realize that it’s causing you to deviate from your current standard of living and into a dangerous spending spree.

For more on what the Diderot Effect is and how to take control of your finances, tune in to today’s show or read the completed transcription below.

Resources Mentioned in the Show 

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FULL TRANSCRIPT – Show 199 The Diderot Effect: How to Get Out of a Spending Spiral

diderot effect spending spree

Doug Hoyes:    This is episode number 199 of Debt Free in 30. We are recording this on June 11, 2018; it is the first week in the new Debt Free in 30 studio here at 800 King Street in Kitchener, our new head office. And I have as a guest today a gentleman who has agreed to be the guinea pig, to test out the new studio, see if it works so let’s get started with my guest Robert Gignac, how are you doing today?

Robert Gignac: I’m doing great, honoured to be here for the first inaugural podcast.

Doug Hoyes:    Well, we certainly appreciate it. So, you wrote a book called Rich is a State of Mind: Building Wealth and Happiness: A Blueprint. Tell me about the book.

Robert Gignac: The book is a novel about personal finances seen through the eyes of a slightly dysfunctional Canadian family. They’re trying to come to grips with everything related to money, investing, insurance, goal setting, planning for the future, everything that the typical Canadian tries to consider when they think about the areas of personal finance. And I based it loosely upon an accumulation of people I met through my time and people I’m related to hence why it is pretty much dysfunctional.

Doug Hoyes:    Excellent. And it’s a Canadian bestseller, it’s been out for a while, you’ve sold many of tens of thousands of copies. What is it that you actually do? Tell me once the book was written what did that lead to for you, what are you doing now?

Robert Gignac: I spend a great deal of my time speaking to clients of the financial industry on behalf of their advisors and financial professionals helping them understand how to do better things with their money, how to change their behaviour if they need to and sometimes not to lose hope about the future that they’re trying to create for themselves because all too often we fall victim to our thinking of I’m never going to have the future that I want so why don’t I just go out, spend my income today and let the future take care of itself.

Doug Hoyes:    Obviously there’s some problems with that. So, you are helping financial advisors help their clients make better decisions with their money, that’s really what it comes down to?

Robert Gignac: In short, yes.

Doug Hoyes:    So let’s talk about some ways then that, you know, you would help them do that, maybe give us some examples. So, you’ve given me a couple of things that you like to talk about, why don’t we start with the Diderot Effect? Now I don’t know if I’m pronouncing that well or not, my French is not great but obviously that’s named after Denis Diderot of course everyone knows that.

Robert Gignac: Everybody knows that.

Doug Hoyes:    I mean he lived from 1713 to 1784.

Robert Gignac: Which is why none of us ever met Diderot.

Doug Hoyes:    That’s right. He’s been around – he’s no longer with us. But of course he’s most famous for his essay called Regrets on Parting with my Old Dressing Gown. Now obviously it was written in French, I’m giving you the English translation there. What was that essay about, what did he talk about, tell us what the Diderot Effect is?

Robert Gignac: He at one point in his life got the gift of a silk dressing gown. And like many of us when we get a gift we think gifts are in fact gifts, they make our lives better. But over the course of the essay, he described how getting that gift made his life worse. And I can read a little bit of French, I’ve studied the essay a little bit with my high school French and it basically boiled down to two thoughts and the first is that goods purchased by consumers will be cohesive to their sense of identity and complimentary to one another. And when I tried to parse that I was what does he mean?

Doug Hoyes:    Yeah, what is that all about?

Robert Gignac: Well, what I think it’s about is we as individuals when we do buy things, we buy things that fit the environment in which we already live. Well that makes sense, you know, whether we have an apartment or a house or a townhouse or we’re renting, we tend to buy goods that compliment the goods we already own, which makes sense.

But then it was followed by part two in the essay that said the introduction of a new possession that is deviant from the consumer’s current personal effects, results in a process of spiralling consumption. And that’s where his essay took the form of since I had this new gorgeous dressing gown, well all of a sudden everything else in my life started to look like it didn’t fit. And so in order to compliment the new better product or the new better good, he started consuming and purchasing other goods. And then once you start doing that you then get yourself in this process of spiralling consumption.

And I’m currently living this myself right now. Because what we did was we bought a brand new gorgeous red front entry door for our house. Best $3,800 I’ve ever spent frosted glass, three windows, looks beautiful. The old door that was there was the original door that was there in the house long before we ever purchased it. And it wasn’t 20 minutes after the door company left and my wife and I stood there in the front hall admiring our purchase, that we both went these floors got to go.

And you know what happens there Doug, the floors go and then you stand in the kitchen and go these cabinets look like hell. And then the cabinets go and then shiny new aluminum appliances show up, stainless steel stoves and dishes and dishwashers. And then the next thing you know you’re replacing the furniture in the living room because you can see the living room from the kitchen, which is now newly remodelled. And it’s that spiralling consumption that for many individuals and I’d like to think I’m immune to it but I’m not, fall victim to.

Doug Hoyes:    Yeah and it makes perfect sense. I mean we’re sitting here in the Debt Free in 30 studio, we’re sitting at a six foot table, if I had, and this is a table that was in the old office so I didn’t actually purchase it, it’s been around for 20 years but if I had purchased a 10 foot table, guess what? Need a bigger office, it’s not going to fit and if it’s a fancy one, got to have better walls, I mean everything kind of flows from that.

Robert Gignac: And then you upgrade the chairs and then you upgrade the desk.

Doug Hoyes:    That’s right. It all flows from that. So, what then I mean I guess the first point you’re making is we should be aware of that.

Robert Gignac: We should be aware of it and I don’t think many of us are because we in some cases spend too much time watching HGTV, which teach us that if your house doesn’t have granite counter tops then your life sucks. And that’s never been the case. But by watching too much of this type of material we tend to think that our lives are not as good as they could be and that by going out and purchasing new and better things, we can fill that void.

Doug Hoyes:    Yeah and I think that’s an important consideration. Certainly if I’m making a big purchase like a house, okay, when I buy that house, and I see this in my business all the time. People come in and they say yep, I own a house and, you know, I’m fully mortgaged and I guess well that’s kind of what you’ve got to do in Ontario 2018 to buy a house. But then I say but you’ve got all this other debt too. Yeah, that’s what we’re here to talk about, we were able to make the mortgage payments but we can’t pay everything else.

What do you mean? Well, when we bought the house we then had to buy new furniture, we had to get a big, you know, red door for the front door, we had do the landscaping, put a deck on, we put a pool on and now we’ve got $50,000 worth of debt, which, you know, okay I guess the second message then is if you’re going to be making a big purchase, you should be thinking through what all the follow on effects are going to be.

Robert Gignac: And I think part of, I don’t want to say blame, but blame for that lies with the institutions that lend people for mortgages because they figure out what they could afford for the house but they never factor in this kind of concept that says okay if these folks are buying a new bigger house or it’s their first house how are they going to furnish that house, we better allow for a certain set of spending beyond the mortgage payments. But no, they simply look at the income and the ratios and they go here’s what they can afford for the house which takes them in some cases to the maximum allowable for debt repayment and then we, the consumer, has to figure out okay how do we afford the rest of the stuff that goes along with this good?

Doug Hoyes:    Well and obviously the lenders are there to make money. That’s what they do. So okay, I guess that’s what they’re going to do. I guess as a consumer if the banks says you’re preapproved for a $500,000 mortgage great, let’s buy a house where the mortgage won’t cost any more than $450,000. I then built in a cushion, obviously I understand there’s a difference between mortgage and unsecured debt, but I’m leaving myself some cushion so that if there are follow on expenditures. If I do succumb to the Diderot Effect then at least I’ve got some play room.

Robert Gignac: Well, in the age of HGTV there’s also no such thing as delayed gratification anymore either. So what happens is a young couple whose age 30 wants everything their parents have today, not realizing that when their parents were 30, their parents had nothing. You know, I spent the first couple of years of my life post school, you know, with milk crate stereo stands and it held the albums and the stereo went here.

Doug Hoyes:    Sorry, albums.

Robert Gignac: Yes, I’m that old.

Doug Hoyes:    You can explain to me what that means later. No, I get it though. You’re exactly right that’s how we started out. I mean we didn’t, you know, have things like curtains because our bedroom backed onto an area where it didn’t matter for years and years and years. I’ve got pictures of my two kids when they were little with the little toy vacuum in the living room and there was no furniture in it because oh well we hadn’t got to that point yet. So, your message then is you’ve got to think ahead to that too and you don’t need to have everything all at once.

Robert Gignac: No, I understand the concept of why people want everything all at once, trust me I’ve been there, I’ve done some very stupid things with my own personal finance when I was younger and tried to do better things with my money along the way. Still not perfect about it but trying to get better all the time.

Doug Hoyes:    So, I think one of the other elements to that is it’s a fear of missing out.

Robert Gignac: Absolutely.

Doug Hoyes:    You know, everybody else has the big house, everybody else has the fancy car, I want it too and if I don’t get it too, I mean this is a big thing in real estate of course certainly in the last few years if I don’t buy a house today it’s going to be worth a lot more tomorrow and I won’t be able to afford it. What are your thoughts on fear of missing out, is that, you know, do you see it as a real thing and if so what’s the solution to it?

Robert Gignac: I see it as a real thing all the time, people want things that everybody else in their social sphere or people they’re connected to have. And if people were going to start addressing fear of missing out, I’d suggest they cancel their Facebook account because the real world does not exist on Facebook or on Instagram. What that is, is everybody’s pictures of their best day all the time. And none of those social networks really show us what’s happening in those people’s lives when it’s not on their best day, when they’re lying awake at 3 in the morning because the Visa bill’s due and the Visa bill’s $1,700 more than they’ve got allowable to pay it on that given day. But it shows them on the beach in Cancun and it shows them beside their new car and it shows them beside the pool in the backyard and life looks amazing.

But the reality is for all of us our life is not amazing every day but social media accounts make it look that way so we think holy crap I’ve got to keep up with this. So we fear missing out because well if I don’t do that what are my friends going to think of me? Are they going to think that we don’t belong? But the reality is we do belong and what happens is we have no idea what’s happening in these people’s lives when they’re not in those accounts.

Doug Hoyes:    Yeah, you can’t look at how someone dresses or what kind of car they drive and what kind of house they live in and figure out how financially well off they are.

Robert Gignac: No, it’s easy to build a lifestyle that looks amazing to everybody else. It’s harder to build the solid foundation of an actual solid financial life. Why? Because it’s boring, personal finance is boring. People ask me all the time, you know, what’s the one big thing I can do, what’s the most exciting thing I can do to get better with my money? And I always tell them stop thinking that personal finance is exciting. It’s not. It’s the little things that we do over and over and over again on an ongoing basis that help make it successful.

Doug Hoyes:    Do you think some people are afraid of money?

Robert Gignac: Oh in a big way. And in fact there’s actually a term that defines that, it’s called chrematophobia.

Doug Hoyes:    Chrematophobia, fear of money. Okay, so what are they afraid of?

Robert Gignac: They’re not afraid of money per se as if they see a $10 bill lying on the desk that they wouldn’t pick it up because they’re afraid of it, but they’re afraid of dealing with the consequences of money because for many of us we assume that money and math go hand in hand because money is numbers and numbers is math. We don’t like math? Why, because many of us struggled with math all of our lives.

I wrote a bestselling book on personal finance, I suck at math, I really do. I was in the 5% of my high school and college class that made the top 95% possible. So I’m not a numbers guy yet I’m decent enough with personal finance because what I’ve learned is that personal finance is about behaviour, it’s not about math. And so that any time I speak at an event and someone comes up and goes I’m not good with money, I suck at math, I go great, you’re already ahead of the game, you figured that out, now let’s talk about the behaviour side.

And so when it comes to fear of money it’s fear of dealing with it, it’s fear of being seen by others as not as successful as our centres of influence are and our social networks are and we don’t want to be left behind. So the fear of money ties into the fear of missing out, ties into the Diderot Effect and what we’ve got is this big kind of swirling mass of things all running through our head usually at about 4:15 in the morning.

Doug Hoyes:    So, explain to me then the difference in your mind between math and behaviour. I mean I understand what math is, I understand what behaviour is, you’re saying personal finance is much more about the behaviour end and much less about the math end.

Robert Gignac: So we tend to look at personal finance through a math lens with things like budgeting and we start off the way people have been typically taught to budget, what comes in, what goes out. We take the number at the top, we subtract, subtract, subtract, subtract, we get hopefully to a positive number at the end and we put a big red circle around it and go I’ll save that. But that red circle doesn’t account for anything that’s going on in the month that’s unexpected from a blown tire to the furnace breaks down to I spill coffee on my best suit right before a big presentation and now I’ve got to go and deal with that.

Behaviour says what am I trying to accomplish, what are the goals that I’m setting out for myself? And when I can align the finances with those goals I worry less about the numbers and the math and focus on my behaviour. And if the behaviour is correct then the numbers, I don’t want to say that they take care of themselves or that they’re unimportant, but that if you’re doing the correct behaviours to create the financial future you want for yourself the math becomes secondary.

Doug Hoyes:    So it’s really a systems versus goal type analysis too that if I want to lose weight I can count calories, that’s math, or I can say let’s just get rid of all the junk food from my house and let’s walk everywhere and even if I’m not counting calories that’s probably going to have a positive effect. It’s the same then when it comes to money.

Robert Gignac: And the counting calories is a great analogy Doug. Because what happens with money and personal finance is we do kind of view it like dieting because dieting is about withdrawal and it’s about delay and it’s about not getting what you want when you want it.

Doug Hoyes:    It’s a bad thing, it’s bad.

Robert Gignac: And so we view it as punishment, right?

Doug Hoyes:    Punishment, right?

Robert Gignac: And so if we’re doing the math part going okay I know that the average male needs 2,300 calories a day and if I cut out my extra large hot foam mocha frappuccino, that is 700 calories, well great I’m 700 calories to the good so I’m going to stop doing that. Oh by the way that helps my math on the personal finance side because there goes $5,75 a day.

And the first week is awesome. And then we get into day one of week two and we go I’m just going to have one and then we have one and if we only had one that would be fine. But then happens is we start sabotaging ourselves. Now the reality is much like personal finance and dieting. If you’re feeling a sense of withdrawal because of what you remove from the system, it’s okay to add a tiny bit back. You want a little bit of a sugar hit, have a bit of chocolate, have a caramel have something but don’t overload with two glasses of what you were missing in order to make up for it because then you completely blow the system and it spirals out of control again, spending’s the same way.

Doug Hoyes:    Well and if you don’t have the money in the first place then I guess the spiralling leads to debt.

Robert Gignac: Absolutely. And I encourage people all the time if you really want to get a handle on what you’re doing with your money, go cash. Stop with the debit cards, stop with the credit cards, just for a month go cash because what happens with the electronic payments and there was an article in The Wall Street Journal today that said the prevalence of electronic tap and pay systems is leading to spiralling debt consumption because of there’s no pain involved in making that purchase. Even before back in the old days you used to hear your credit card go crack, crack and then it became you put it in and you put in your pin number, now it’s tap and beep and away you go. There’s no physical link to what we just bought to our sense of feeling about what we just paid money for.

Doug Hoyes:    Yeah, I have no doubt we would spend less money if we only paid cash. If you’ve got to open our wallet and start peeling out the $20 bills that’s a very physical thing you can see it, it’s real.

Robert Gignac: And then you’re doing numbers in your head, which helps relate to the entire process of personal finance.

Doug Hoyes:    So this show is called Debt Free in 30, we’re trying to talk about debt and how to avoid it and everything. So what is your advice then on avoiding the debt spiral, avoiding the debt? Is it as simple as don’t use a credit card or is it more complex than that?

Robert Gignac: Well, I’m not naive enough to think that, you know, we can just simply get rid of our credit cards. Trust me go into do an auto repair for your car, $780, you don’t want to carry around a thousand bucks in your wallet so that you do that. But where most of us fall down in terms of our spending is the everyday consumable things that add up that we never think of because it’s tap, tap, tap, you see it in a drive thru at Tim Hortons, people hold the card out of their car and tap. Why, because they just spent $1.70 on a coffee. If we can get that sense of tactile feel back with our money I think we can at some point regain our control over it so that it doesn’t just become this invisible thing we don’t deal with till we see our bank statement at the end of the month.

Doug Hoyes:    But how do you do that? Because you’re right, I mean maybe your example of going to the coffee shop I should pay cash because it’s real, but I’m not going to pay cash when I’m going, you know, to make a big purchase because my transmission dropped out and I’ve got to spend a big wad of money. What’s the middle ground then, how do you get back to that tactile sense of money?

Robert Gignac: I think the middle ground could be, and some people I’ve heard use this very successfully, it would never work for me, is use something like an envelope system where you allocate your money by envelope, by spending category at the beginning of the month. And when that envelope’s done for the month you’re done for that month. And in that envelope could be rewards for going to the gym and if that reward is a coffee or a cappuccino, you know, going to Baskin Robins for an ice-cream once a week because you’re trying to balance off your calorie consumption with what you’re burning at the gym, great.

Too many people think that when you’re trying to control our debt and trying to control our spending that everything’s negative and it’s about punishment. No, we have to reward ourselves along the way because if we don’t ever reward ourselves for what we’re doing well, at some point we’ll hit that tipping point and then everything comes cascading down.

Doug Hoyes:    Now you said an envelope type system wouldn’t work for you.

Robert Gignac: For me personally it doesn’t work but thankfully for me I know myself well enough that I tend to do a lot of things cash, for the things that I’m buying – the day to day consumer products. Other things are set up with automatic payments that come out of your account as we all do for things like car insurance, house insurance, you know, hydro, heat all of those things. Why? Because when we don’t see the money come out of our account and know it comes out automatically then we don’t ever get into trying to rob Peter or pay Paul by saying I’ll pull some from here, move it over here and I’ll get some more back to take care of that.

We know what it’s like sometimes when we were younger and we go out with our buddies, right? We’ve got the debit card, we go to the machine, I know I’ve kind of overspent my budget for the week but it’s only 40 bucks and I’ll put it back on Tuesday. And we take it out on Saturday, we have a good time with our friends, Tuesday it doesn’t go back.

Doug Hoyes:    Yeah and I’m a big believer in the preauthorized, you know, payments. So okay my hydro bill’s a 100 bucks a month, I get paid every week, I’m going to set it up to send 25 bucks to hydro every payday, I don’t have to worry about it. I get paid on Fridays so by Saturday whatever’s left in my bank account I’ve covered all of my ongoing expenses, my regular monthly expenses, that’s that I’ve got to spend. So I guess kind of the electronic version of the envelope system.

Robert Gignac: And what we try to create, or hopefully that we try to create, for ourselves is some people call it a slush fund or an emerge fund of money that we’re setting aside on an ongoing basis that is truly for the quote/unquote emergency, right, for the furnace that won’t start in February, for the air conditioner that goes out when it’s 37 degrees Celsius in July, the transmission that goes in the car. And what I share with people all the time is that when you have an emergency fund set aside, a real emergency just becomes an inconvenience because you’ve set that up for yourself in order to do it. But for too many of us what happens with no emergency fund is the emergency is a real emergency and in some cases we go into debt to cover those things and then it’s tougher to get out of when we’re doing all the other things that are affecting our behaviour.

Doug Hoyes:    Yeah, I mean if I lose my job, I get laid off, the company goes out of business and I’ve got 100,000 bucks cash in the bank and no debt, I guess I’ll go to Florida for a month, like it’s no big deal, right? But when you’re already maxed out in your debt and even the little tiniest thing happens, you know, I need a new pair of work boots, then you got a really big problem.

Robert Gignac: No, you do have a problem and it’s those problems that add up consistently over time that really do affect our behaviour with money.

Doug Hoyes:    And that’s where we get back to the whole math and behaviour thing, so final topic tell me about juicers.

Robert Gignac: I bought a juicer, it might have been one of the dumbest things I’ve ever done.

Doug Hoyes:    So this is the thing you put the fruit in and you grind it up and you get your smoothie.

Robert Gignac: Absolutely. I share this story almost every time I speak to an audience that people think just because you wrote a best-selling book on personal finance you’ve got it all figured out. I don’t, I’m still a work in progress. But about six months ago I bought a juicer and for those of you listening in the audience if you’ve ever bought one you know how amazing the first month is. You’re jamming mangos and kiwis and pineapple and grapefruits and oranges and glass after glass after glass.

Doug Hoyes:    Greatest thing ever.

Robert Gignac: It’s awesome. It kind of sucks to clean it a little bit, it’s still great. But then one day about a month after I bought the juicer I wandered down an aisle in the grocery store that apparently I had never, ever been down before in my entire life because I was astounded to find about 182 feet of juice on the left hand side, any flavour I wanted in cartons already squeezed and all I had to do was take it home and pour it. And ever since that the juicer hasn’t seen the light of day. And I suspect many of us have a juicer somewhere under the kitchen countertop at the back, collecting dust that hasn’t been used in months.

Doug Hoyes:    And so what’s the takeaway then, don’t buy a juicer?

Robert Gignac: Buy a juicer, but understand why you’re buying the juicer. If you’re buying the juicer because you’re doing it for dietary health reasons and yes, there’s people with allergies that can’t handle some of the additives that are in the added juice or they want it to be pure with more fibre, then that’s great. But understand why you’re buying it. I bought one because I thought it would be cool and I was up at 1:45 in the morning watching the late night infomercial and I thought I could do that. And I did for about a month and then realized I hate doing that.

And so all of a sudden the purchase that I thought would make my life better, cycles right back to the Diderot Effect, I bought something that didn’t fit in with my lifestyle and thus pushed it away.

Doug Hoyes:    Yeah and I think that’s kind of a great way to end it. I guess my comment on that would be you got to think. So, buying the juice at the store, okay well, I mean if what I like is mango juice then I guess buying it at the store is easier than buying mangos and grinding it up and all the rest of it. I mean maybe the stuff at the store has a bunch of sugar and a bunch of additives.

Robert Gignac: And it does, there’s no getting around that.

Doug Hoyes:    Maybe it’s better doing it myself but think through, am I going to use this, how am I going to use this, if I’ve never been a juicer before is it just because I didn’t have one or are there many other reasons? Do I really have the time to be cleaning it and doing all these other things?

Robert Gignac: Or is it because one of your friends raved about their juicer and said you know Doug, if you’re as good a man as I think you are, you should have a juicer.

Doug Hoyes:    Got you, so it’s not really about the juicer, it’s about many of the things we talked about, about the fear of missing out, everybody else has got one and that sort of thing.

Robert Gignac: Exactly.

Doug Hoyes:    So I guess that’s really the message there, why are you buying it? If there’s a legitimate good reason and if you got the cash sitting there fantastic, but if it’s because your friends have it then maybe not such a good idea.

Robert Gignac: Then you should probably double think that purchase.

Doug Hoyes:    Excellent. Well that’s fantastic. So once again the name of your book, Rich is a State of Mind: Building Wealth and Happiness: A Blueprint, Robert Gignac. How can people track you down if they’re interested in either getting a copy of the book or getting you out to speak, where can they find you?

Robert Gignac: The easiest way to track me down if you’re interested in the book is www.richisastateofmind and so it’s the book title spelled out .com. You can get information about the book there. If you’re interested in what I’m doing outside of the book you can go to robertgignac.com, you can listen to the podcast, you can watch a TV show that I host called We Talk Money, which I’m grateful that Doug has been a guest on.

Doug Hoyes:    I have been on – and so let’s talk about then so where can people find that show?

Robert Gignac: They can find the show streaming at we-tv.ca or they can find it on the robertgignac.com website under watch.

Doug Hoyes:    And so you’re also on Twitter.

Robert Gignac: I am on Twitter at @riasom, which is rich is a state of mind and I’ve got a Facebook page as well. If you reach out to me I’ll try and answer any questions as long as people understand I’ve never been a financial professional, I’ve only ever been a client of the industry and that’s the people I care deeply about.

Doug Hoyes:    And that’s the perspective you’re coming from. So what I will do is in the show notes over at hoyes.com I will put links to everything we talked about, your websites, how to find the book. I will put in the YouTube video of the appearance I had on your show a couple of months ago on We Talk TV where I think we talked about my book actually.

Robert Gignac: We did.

Doug Hoyes:    And so that people can see that and then get links to all the other shows you’ve done there. You’ve been doing that for a few months now I think and so people can track you down that way. Robert, thanks so much for being here.

Robert Gignac: It’s been an honour Doug.

Doug Hoyes:    Excellent that was guest Robert Gignac and as I said full show notes will be over at hoyes.com. Not only will I have links there but I also will have a full transcript of everything that I talked about today. Until next week, thanks for listening, I’m Doug Hoyes. That was Debt Free in 30.

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